Most of us have as adults picked up a view of God. Even if we don't believe in God, we have a view of the God we don't believe in. Dallas Willard sets out to unsettle our view of God by insisting that he's about as joyous as anyone can be. In this episode Michael Stewart Robb sits down with Dallas's friend Trevor Hudson, a teacher and author who didn't react benignly to this section of The Divine Conspiracy when he first read it. That reaction was actually common, says Dallas. We also talk about whether there might be more to say about God's heart regarding human suffering, more than just, "He's full of joy."